Wednesday, July 23, 2008

Tips with Symbols / Generic Annotations

Symbols / Generic Annotations can be very handy when it comes to logos ect. When you open up a Generic Annotation, you won’t see any scale in the bottom of the view. Basically you are drawing at 1 to 1 in regard to how the symbol will read when printed.

One thing you will find, you can not draw a line in a family (rfa) file less than 0.8mm. For logos and symbols this can be big problem so here are some work-arounds:

Lines

If you just want to use lines, draw them 10 times the size they need to be. When finished, select the lines and use the Resize command to reduce them by point 1 (0.1).

Filled Regions

For some reason, the same trick does not work when scaling with-in the sketch mode of filled regions. When you resize it is likely you will get the following messag:

So how do you create solid items that require a line less than 0.8mm. Using an imported image unfortunately won’t work. When you bring it into the project file it scales totally incorrectly.

Surprisingly the solution is dwg (AutoCAD format). Open up a drafting view in Revit. Use a filled region to create the logo / symbol 10 times the required size. Use invisible lines around the parameter. On finishing it, export the view as a dwg (AutoCAD) file. Now open up the Generic Annotation template file.

Import the dwg file, and use the resize tool to reduce it by point 1 (0.1).

Save the symbol and import and place it into a blank project file. Now go to Settings > Object Styles and go to the imported objects tab. Select the individual AutoCAD layers and delete them individually.

Now go to the Revit project browser, and navigate to families > Annotation Symbols. Right click on your symbol family and click save. Save this out to your Revit Library. This symbol now will work not perfectly when inserted into your project without any of the AutoCAD visibility headaches.


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Additional note added 30 July 08

Colour in your Symbols

In the event you want colour in the symbols you will need to leave the old AutoCAD layers in the family. When you delete an AutoCAD layer it bumps the items on to the default Revit imported object layer which is black. So in the case of using colours you, can just leave the AutoCAD layers in the family. It will mean that you have the possible problem of the imported objects being turned off accidentally. It’s definitely not ideal by any means.

If you can get away with back and white go with that first. If you have to use colour, first see if you can draw it in the Generic Annotation Family using the Revit fill region. If all that fails you will need to bring it in from AutoCAD and leave the associated layers there.

In regard to the AutoCAD layers, if you need to export your finished drawing back to AutoCAD for consultants, and you want to make sure your generic annotation symbols export correctly, put the different colours on different layers. Alternatively in the export options for “Layers and properties” change it to “Category properties BYLAYER, overrides BYENTITY” or “All properties BYLAYER, new layers for overrides.”



Thanks for the questions.

9 comments:

HuygenStiens said...

thanks for explaining this,
i have a question. within object-styles i cannot delete A-DETLGEM.
it turns all symbols to black.
is this a fault?

Brian Renehan said...

Very good question,
In the event you want colour in the symbols you will need to leave the old AutoCAD layers in the family. When you delete an AutoCAD layer it bumps the items on to the default Revit imported object layer which is black. So in the case of using colours you, can just leave the AutoCAD layers in the family. It will mean that you have the possible problem of the imported objects being turned off accidentally. It’s definitely not ideal by any means.
If you can get away with back and white go with that first. If you have to use colour, first see if you can draw it in the Generic Annotation Family using the Revit fill region. If all that fails you will need to bring it in from AutoCAD and leave the associated layers there.
In regard to the AutoCAD layers, if you need to export your finished drawing back to AutoCAD for consultants, and you want to make sure your generic annotation symbols export correctly, put the different colours on different layers. Alternatively in the export options for “Layers and properties” change it to “Category properties BYLAYER, overrides BYENTITY” or “All properties BYLAYER, new layers for overrides.”

HuygenStiens said...

can you help with another issue?
I would like to control the visibilty of the symbol, like turning off and on a subcategory of generic-annotations.

So id prefer to have the created symbol in a subcategory of generic-annotations and than be able to turn off and on.

thanks for the help till now

leoshcn said...

Hi Brian, Thanks for the post. It helped me a lot.But I do not understand the last few steps.Why do you need to go to the project file's object and styles dialog to delete those "subcategories", can't we just delete them in family and save it?

Brian Renehan said...

Hi loeshcn
With in the Generic Annotation family you can’t delete the subcategories from the VG dialogue box or object styles settings. You can delete the associated layers. However if you delete these layers it will delete the element on those layers.

Hope that helps.
Brian

Brian Renehan said...

Hi HuygenStiens

You can create a sub-category in a Generic Annotation family, assign a Revit element to it (ie a line or filled region) and then turn it on or off in the project file.
In a quick answer I don’t think there is a way to doing it with imported element into a Revit Generic Annotation family.
Remember, if you can create a Revit pure family rather than using imports you are always better off. The above symbol insert method is a last resort to get over the “line to short” issue.

leoshcn said...

Thanks for the clear answer.
I got it.

JP said...

I need help finding how to turn off the border around imported raster images in Revit Architecture 2009. I've read the suggestions to re-create it in Revit, but my logo is too 'organic' to easily re-create with Vectors, and it's been working great in ADT for years with IMAGEFRAME set to 2, or 0 so the border doesn't print. Is there a way to also do this in Revit Architecture 2009?

Brian Renehan said...

Hi JP

I haven't directly come across this problem in Revit. I understand where you are coming from in an AutoCAD environment. I wasn't aware Revit ever created a border. I've imported png, tif, jpg, gif and bmp images and never had it create a border. The image itself doesn't have a border?